|
SEARCH FOR THE MASS GRAVES IN UKRAINE map - researches - testimonies - review of the press |
THE
MASSIVE SHOOTINGS OF THE JEWS IN UKRAINE 1941-1944 THE
HOLOCAUST OF BULLETS exhibition at the mémorial de la shoah from june 20 to november 30, 2007 |
Anna D., born in 1927, Bus'k, Lvov area.
Adolf W., born in 1930, Lisinitchi, Lvov area.
Mikhaïl N., born in 1923, Kherson, Kherson area.
Samuel A., born in 1923, Dobyzh, Zhytomyr area.
Anna
D., born in 1927.
Interviewed
in Bus'k, Lvov area, 04/29/04.
Patrick Desbois :
Where are we now ?
Anna D. :
On Shevtchenko street in Bus'k. We are in the jewish cemetery.
P.D. : Was
there a jewish area ?
A.D. : A lot
of Jews used to
live in the center of the city, in every street ; at the end of
Shevtchenko street there were houses, courtyards, a few jewish stores.
A jewish woman used to sell canned food, and all kinds of things, her
son was selling cigarettes, tobacco, taking commission on it.
P.D. : Do
you remember what happened when Germans came in Bus'k ?
A.D. :
Germans immediatly
started to build a ghetto for the Jews of our village and from villages
around. The ones from Sokal, where they were numerous... And then, mass
murders started on. They gathered middle-aged Jews, strong enough to
make them work. Most of them had to dig ditches. Then people were
getting shot while others were digging ditches.
P.D. : Was
there a lot of jewish villages around Bus'k ?
A.D. : There
were Jews in every village. Most of the time they were traders.
P.D. : How
did they carry people, by foot, in carriages, in trucks ?
A.D. : In
open trucks.
P.D. : Did
they wear yellow star badges ?
A.D. : They
did, with the dark
blue cross. In the ghetto, some policemen were german, some were jewish
also. And they were hitting them, frequently.
P.D. : Do
you remember the first thing that Germans did ?
A.D. : They
gathered them in
the center of the city, in the ghetto, which was enclosed... You know,
I wasn't there, I've been told. They have been sit, then they have been
shot. They got in the ghetto in trucks. Later, they started to kill
them over there, behind that house, I remember it. Germans had very big
dogs. Jews were digging ditches themselves. At the end,
Germans
were commandeering people of the village in order to dig. People were
bringing their own shovels. Jews were standing on the verge of the
ditch,
Germans were shooting them in the back and they were falling straight
into the ditch, then they were putting lime. I recall a young Jew who
had twins, he was carrying them in his arms, a German came close to
him, shot one child, then the other and the third bullet was for the
father.
P.D. : Have
you seen that yourself ?
A.D. : Yes.
I was in this house
over there. I was watching through a hole, trying to see what was
happening. Germans were shouting at children not to watch, driving us
out.
P.D. : How
many Germans were there ?
A.D. : Four,
six. They had two black dogs. Jews were trying to discreetly throw
gold, precious things in the river. When Germans realized that, they
shouted, then made them walk further and pass through a gate. There was
a shed up there. They were gathering Jews's belongings in the trucks.
Making heaps. There were heaps of glasses, of pants. Afterwards they
were carrying back all those things to the ghetto.
P.D. : What
were they doing with it ?
A.D. : I
don't know. I guess Germans were keeping the best things. Germans were
forcing us to help them pack all those belongings. I had an ukrainian
neighbour who had to help them.
P.D. : Did
it last a few days ?
A.D. : I
don't remember anymore. Until they destroy the ghetto. Maybe one year.
Young girls, one of them was in school with me and was very beautiful,
were not killed immediately. Silva had to live with the chief of
Germans. Other girls were taken by other soldiers. Those young girls
and the ukrainian girls were packing all those objects. When
some young girls were falling pregnant, they used to kill them, because
they couldn't have children with that kind of people. They were asking
policemen of Sokal to bring them to a place located ten kilometers from
Bus'k in order to kill those young girls who were really beautiful,
because they didn't want to do it themselves.
P.D. : Were
they numerous ?
A.D. : Half
a truck.
P.D. : How
long did the execution last ?
A.D. :
Executions were starting at the dawn, around five o-clock. They were
shooting them. That wasn't happening everyday.
P.D. : Which
month was it ? Was it summer ?
A.D. : It
was summer, the weather was great. At the end, when there were no more
Jews in the ghetto, Russians arrived. Then Germans came back, and
russians came back again. The ghetto had already been opened again.
There were still several jewish boys and girls. One of those
youngsters, Rotenberg, didn't look like a Jew, had no beard, no curly
hair. He escaped to Sokal, then to Poland, from Poland to England. Some
had listened what was happening in Poland, that's why they didn't want
have their sons circumsized. Young girls didn't look like jewish girls
and they didn't say they were jewish, getting known as "Anna", just
like me.
P.D. : How
many times did it happen there ?
A.D. : There
had been a lot of executions. Maybe fifteen.
P.D. : Were
they carrying them always on trucks ?
A.D. : They
were. In closed trucks. Trucks were stopping over there, people were
getting down, soldiers were rushing them.
P.D. : Did
people know they are going to get killed ?
A.D. : Yes,
they knew they are going to get killed. They were shouting. They were
stumbling. A boy who was in school with me was aware of that, he was
shouting at me "bye-bye", making handsigns to me.
P.D. : Were
they killing them all with handguns ?
A.D. : They
were killing them with one shot in the scruff.
P.D. : Were
they covering up the corpses ?
A.D. : The
villagers were given some lime in order to cover them up with soil.
P.D. : Who
was giving that lime ?
A.D. :
Germans. They were bringing it in trucks. At the beginning, some
Jews, the beefier, were doing it. Afterwards they were
conscripting local people for doing it.
P.D. : In
your opinion, why Germans choosed that place ?
A.D. : I
don't know. Maybe because it's a cemetery, with only a few
neighbors.
P.D. : Some
other children were watching those shootings as well ?
A.D. : Yes.
But they were watching only once and were not coming back for a second
time. Because it was about their neighbors, their classmates. It was a
small village, everybody knew each other. Everybody was scared, because
we were aware that they were killing, hitting, shooting Jews. Some were
hiding Jews. One woman who lived alone was hiding a whole jewish family
in her cellar, while two Germans were living in her house at the same
time. Jews often decided to hide in the woods in order not to put
in jeopardy the life of the family who was hiding them.
P.D. : Do
the inhabitants of Bus'k know that you can find mass graves here
?
A.D. :
Today, you can count on the fingers of one hand the people who were
born in Bus'k. There's only me and my sister. The others come from
other cities and and villages. They come from the Carpathian Mountains,
from Poland...
P.D. : Would
you like they have a monument ?
A.D. : There
was a lot of gravestones here, but they've been used to pave roads.
Before, the cemetery was guarded, not anymore. A monument would cost a
lot of money, I guess so.